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Happiness Engineer at Automattic, lover of knitting, crochet, sci-fi and more

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You are here: Home / Religion / Bible / Thursday Thirteen #44

Thursday Thirteen #44

22 February 2007 by kristarella

For the last three Wednesday nights the Anglican Archbishop of Sydney Philip Jensen has been doing a series of talks titled “Why I am a reformed protestant evangelical Christian.” (I’m not sure if commas belong in that sentence) I thought last night’s talk was really good and I wanted to share some things that were said. I might do the previous weeks’ talks another time.

Woah! I just discovered this is the last week of the “official” Thursday Thirteen. Thanks for the Thursdays everyone! Obviously Thursdays will continue, not sure about the thirteens though…

Thirteen things from the Archbishop’s talk on Evangelicalism.

1. The evangelical revival (18th and 19th century) was an extension of the reformation, or “the reformation coming to life”. The ideals of evangelical religion (to spread God’s word not out of obligation but purely because of the love God has shown us) are from and go back to the bible. Unlike a common impression given out (especially by we stuffy Anglicans) experience does matter, but scripture still reigns supreme.

2. We are “justified by faith”. Funnily enough this is a feature of the reformation and protestant religion and evangelicalism. We are saved by trusting that Jesus bore the wrath of God and set us free from sin on the cross, it is therefore nothing we have done that makes us righteous before God. One could claim that it’s us who chooses to trust him… well, this point would get far too long if I tried to discuss that (I don’t even entirely understand it).

3. An excellent consequence of the above point is that we can have complete assurance of salvation. There have been Christians that did not have such assurance (including Richard Johnson, the chaplain with the First Fleet and one of the first evangelicals to bring the word of God to Australiait wasn’t clear to me in the lecture but Samuel Johnson was the Johnson to not grasp assurance) and it can be difficult to maintain such trust. We can have it though because it does not depend on our ability to repent and obey.

4. A potential danger which can diminish points 2 and 3 is down-playing the seriousness of sin. We can start to believe in the good works we do, even if we only do them because of what God has done, even if they are God’s work, it’s not those or our morals or anything else that save us. By down-playing sin we could detract from the work Jesu did when he died. While Jesus death might be a good example of sacrificial love and it doesn’t show that God knows how we may suffer, first and foremost it’s God redeeming people – “while we were still sinners” (Rom 5:6)

5. Apparently and evangelical emphasis is a need for conversion. I’d never really thought about this before, not specifically. He prefaced this point by saying of course people were converted before the evangelical revival, the concept just wasn’t as emphasised or understood. He said that it was important that Christians be converted, to turn to God in trust and repentance, that infant baptism isn’t good enough. It seems sort of obvious that infant baptism won’t save you if you don’t trust God in the rest of your life, I don’t think he was saying that infant baptism means nothing and you should do it again either. I think this point was also related to a more Calvinistic approach where you gain faith through education and knowing what the bible says about salvation, where as many can know, but not all will trust.

6. “It’s not the amount of your faith, but the greatness of your saviour that saves you.” Sometimes I look at the bible and recognise my own lack of faith and am saddened. I should remember this statement and rejoice.

7. Romans 5:2-5 – “More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.”

8. Perfection is something that belongs to our future, Jesus will usher in a new age with a new heaven and a new earth. Until then we will not be perfect. In this and Romans 5 I should realise that struggling is good. If I cease struggling I will not build maturity and character. If I no longer struggle then I either think I’m perfect, in which case I’ve fallen away from the gospel (1Jn 1:8) or I have given up, I don’t know if giving up equals falling away or if it’s a just saved kind of life.

9. I used to have the urge to add a bunch of conditions onto my definition of a Christian. I’d say a Christian was someone who trusted Jesus and lived accordingly etc. These things I added were essentially the things that the bible describes as flowing from true faith. I think I added them because I object to someone calling themselves a Christian but living as if God bestowing his grace upon us didn’t cost him anything. Since God is the only one who can see our hearts and Jesus is the one who will judge I must force myself to remove these conceptions from my mind. A Christian is someone who trusts in Jesus alone for salvation. That’s all. We’ll all have our own struggles in our lives, failing at some things doesn’t make us any less saved.

10. God hasn’t poured out his love on us making us more loving (see no. 7). It’s just that he has poured into our hearts his love for us. Essentially so that we may know him and his love, we are given love so that we can understand his love for us. (Ephesians 3)

11. There are diary entries and records that Richard Johnson, chaplain of the First Fleet, was the first man to preach a sermon in Australia. Samuel Marsden the first to do so in New Zealand. Richard Johnson hated being in Australia but he stayed to share the gospel with the lost souls that needed it – Jesus came to save the criminals too. Thank goodness he did or our country may have a very different shape.

12. In this series of talks there was some comparison of beliefs, more so in the other talks, but in this talk as he spoke about how evangelism in the 18th and 19th centuries was closely related to looking after people who needed it and the development of societies to help, including RSPCA, Bernados, and an organisation for the protection of children. He made the point that many evangelicals were also Arminians (as opposed to Reformists whose beliefs differ on topics including election), it made me realise that perhaps some of the things that I get upset about when people differ in opinion on them really don’t matter. If people believe in Christ alone, faith alone and scripture alone (yes all three things alone and at the same time! 😛 ) then they are brothers in Christ. That’s a bit related to no. 9 as well I think.

13. There was some banter about the various millennial theories. The main streams of thought on the end times include Pre-Millennialism, Post-Millennialism and Amillennialism. I know I’ve looked at these topics at least twice. I don’t remember what they’re about! I hope to find a reliable reading resource on the topic soon. Peter Jensen is an Amillennialist. (Or am I adding an incorrect negative prefix to the word Millennialism?)

Not part of the talk was a mention at the start of the night of three answers to prayer – prayers by other people that either affected the Archbishop, or people he knows. Hearing those things reminded how lacking my prayer-life is and how independent from God I am in that area. I struggle with this partly because I think God knows everything and what could I possibly say to him, partly because I know that God can do things, but there are some things that I think he won’t do. I hate these attitudes and want to be rid of them. If it’s a good thing to pray for then just pray for it and maybe God will answer with a “yes”, if he answers “no” then I have lost nothing and gained practice in depending on God.

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Comments

  1. Raggedy says

    22 February 2007 at 13:15

    Thursday Thirteen has come to an end.
    I have enjoyed my visits here and consider us friends.
    Thank you for sharing your thirteens with me.
    The comments you left me filled me with glee.
    It is hard to believe it is really true.
    I am trying very hard to not be blue.
    Happy TT’ing!
    *^_^
    (=’:’=)
    (“)_ (“)Å 
    Raggedy

  2. rashenbo says

    22 February 2007 at 13:21

    Very interesting list. Thank you for sharing!

    Thursday Thirteen has been fun and I’m sorry to see it go.

    Take Care

  3. carmen says

    22 February 2007 at 23:15

    Thank goodness for divine love, else where would we all be?

  4. Darla says

    23 February 2007 at 00:49

    That was very interesting and informative–thanks!

  5. Edwin says

    23 February 2007 at 10:07

    Hey Kriso,

    Good points, all of them. Thank God for evangelicals across the ages who have lived and died for the truths you can now so casually expound on your website. A few hundred years ago, just preaching on point 2 would have had you imprisoned at the very least.

    In point 3, I think you are rightly confused between Richard Johnson, chaplain to the First Fleet, and Samuel Johnson, creator of the first English dictionary among other things. Richard was an evangelical and I’m sure he preached assurance of salvation; Samuel was evidently caught in the terrible quandry of misunderstanding assurance.

    Point 13 – pre-, post- and a-millennialism are all different understandings of how the end times work/will work (see Revelation 20, 2 Thessalonians 2 and 2 Peter 3) When we study eschatology at church we may touch on these topics, but we also may not.

    All very interesting – I’m pleased to see the talk series was interesting. Maybe grabbing the DVDs and going through them with more background explanation and Biblical examination in your Growth Group this year will bring more truths to light.

    .e

    • kristarella says

      23 February 2007 at 11:23

      Have changed point 3… I never heard him say Samuel Johnson, perhaps I should have asked someone because that whole bit seemed weird to me 🙂

      I know about as much as you said about eschatology, that’s about it. From what I remember there’s different understandings of the order of events, whether we’re actually in some of those events already etc I hope we do look at it those different perspectives in Eschatology although there’s a good chance we’ll only look at the one that Philip believes (if he’s still around to preach it), since preachers don’t usually give you a range of meanings to choose from, they tell you what they think the bible says.

      That would be interesting to do in Growth Group… I’m not sure if Dave has a whole year plan or just the first topic, the latter is likely though. I’ll mention it to him (I think I’m taking a bit of a back-seat leaders role in all of this. Hopefully I’ll be able to encourage the girls in some girly way.)

  6. JHS says

    24 February 2007 at 13:19

    VERY interesting and insightful. Thanks for sharing all of that information! 😀

A triptych of baubles. These are very satisfying t A triptych of baubles. These are very satisfying to paint ❤️💚💙

#watercolor #watercolour #christmas
I have really enjoyed this Christmassy painting! S I have really enjoyed this Christmassy painting! So glad my friend asked me to make some cards for our church helpers, because it set me on a roll!
#watercolor #watercolour #christmas #christmascards #watercolorcards
Had a great Saturday at the GKR Karate State Title Had a great Saturday at the GKR Karate State Titles! I was a sub for @jamesxuereb.me in the Blue Flame Dragons thanks to his sprained ankle; we won first round and came fourth overall!
I did a bunch of judging and officiating, which was really good.
I didn’t place in my individual events, but had a very fun final round of kumite (sparring).

#gkrkarate #karate
More stamping tonight. Even better than last night More stamping tonight. Even better than last night’s!
Did some stamping this evening. Love it! I wish I’d done some pages in other ink colours before I dismantled the stamps 😂
Had an appointment in the city, so I got to visit Had an appointment in the city, so I got to visit the @legocertifiedstores_anz Wicked display!
#wicked #lego #afol #sydney
A little book I made from Bunnings paint sample ca A little book I made from Bunnings paint sample cards. It’s going to be for mini paintings and collages. Sometimes it’s nice to start with a colour rather than a blank white page!
A little while ago I did some swatching of Daniel A little while ago I did some swatching of Daniel Smith and Schminke Horodam watercolours. So soothing! I love some of the granulating colours!
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