Thanks to Amillennialist for his reply to my question.
This is my response. My thoughts on the topic are neither complete nor unwilling to be changed. I am trying to understand the truth of God revealed through his word without imposing what I think it should say. So discussion and reforming of ideas is essential.
Surely if you want to use John 15:6 in a discussion about election it would show that Jesus (God) does choose people, they don’t choose him — as you have highlighted in that verse?
I’ve heard quite a bit of teaching that says that Ephesians 2:8-9 is saying,
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [that you are saved by grace through faith] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Therefore, not only grace, but also faith, is the gift by which we are saved. This would be supported by 1 Corinthians 12:3,
“… no one can say Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit.”
Having faith is essentially confessing that Jesus is Lord (and able to save), which cannot be done apart from the Holy Spirit. So, God must have a very significant, if not essential role in us having faith at all.
Paul’s point here is not that God hates (or rejects) people just because He chooses to do so (Calvinism’s Double Predestination), it is that God’s blessings depend on His mercy and are received by faith, not by works.
I have no doubt that many of God’s chosen people and heroes of faith, so to speak, were sinful. “No one is good except God alone”. However, I don’t think Romans 9-11 is talking about undeserved salvation through faith, as much as it is talking about God’s sovereignty. God power and method is shown through Jesus Christ, so it’s necessary to show that we are saved by faith, not by our works, to show God’s sovereignty. Otherwise we would have some kind of control over our destiny, but we don’t.
The reason I think Romans is about that is because of the repetition:
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed.
14Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
21Has the potter no right over the clay…
He also, calls people “elect”? What do you think that means if we choose to believe in him?
Paul does not state that the hardening God did was His “sovereign choice” (that subtitle in the ESV and NIV is human commentary, not Divine revelation) to condemn someone; rather, he declares that its purpose was to show His power to the entire world.
I never read the subheadings, so none of the impressions I get about the text are from them (and believe me, I have been trying and praying that I would come to these passages without bias).
Verse 22 does say “desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power”. I’m sure he doesn’t find punishment pleasurable, but it does seem to be saying that he chooses to act among humans to make known his power, not only in saving, but punishing too. Not only to the extent that he is completely just and merciful to mankind through Jesus Christ, but that it’s necessary for some hearts to be hardened, which Exodus, Habakuk and Romans make clear is God’s doing as well as men’s responsibility.
Does God’s patience with “objects of wrath prepared for destruction” (Romans 9:22) mean that He created people for Hell? No, since we believers are by nature, “objects of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3).
I’ve heard it said before that Romans 9 only says he “endured with much patience vessels of wrath” and so we can’t conclude with certainty that God created people not to be saved. However, it then goes on to say that they are “prepared for destruction” and then contrasts them with “vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory”. If the contrast was not there, I think it could certainly be describing us all who at some point were objects of wrath, but the analogy fails for me if it’s not talking about two distinct groups of people.
Most importantly, Paul shows us that the reason Israel is rejected is not because of “God’s sovereign choice,” because of its unbelief, through which they reject Christ
Yes, they pursued a righteousness based on works, but then Paul also says that when Christ came he was a stumbling block to them because (Romans 11)
8God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.
I very much appreciate that there is a tension here because it is obvious that we are saved by faith, but the bible also seems clear that faith is impossible apart from the Spirit. You say that Calvinism denies God’s kindness, forbearance, and patience to many. I think a Calvinist would say that it is God who does that, which is why Paul says,
33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
